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"Because it’s so hard to climb the ladder, it feels like people think that there is just that one spot up there ..."
In the final part of our interview with Hazel Aggrey-Orleans, we converse about the importance of support networks and mentorship. The discussion then concludes with some of Hazel’s pivotal successes and exciting future ambitions.
And so the conversation continues …
Support Networks
Yaaya:
A while ago we posted on our blog the question, “who/what are your most valuable support networks?” We pose the same question to you.
Hazel A:
I guess my family - for financial reasons and for just being there for me emotionally and physically. Definitely, they have been very supportive. I also do a lot of personal development training. For example, going on courses or listening to tapes. And that has helped me – I am a huge fan of Anthony Robbins, I don’t know if you know him. I am able to pull from his advice during difficult times. It is quite a lonely journey when you start your own business. So the motivational talks have really helped. Like “you can achieve anything in life if you put your head and heart into it”.
It is so easy to quit, but if you know for the journey you are on that there is goal at the end, then you just keep going with the vision. That has really helped me. Good support systems are all about positivity and surrounding yourself with the right kind of energy and people around you. It's tough, but you have to be part away with negative people that won't be supportive.
It is so easy to quit, but if you know for the journey you are on that there is goal at the end, then you just keep going with the vision. That has really helped me. Good support systems are all about positivity and surrounding yourself with the right kind of energy and people around you. It's tough, but you have to be part away with negative people that won't be supportive.
Yaaya:
How much of an influence was your support system during that transition period of moving back to Europe, starting up your own company, and releasing your collections?
Hazel A:
My family's help with the different aspects of the transition was hugely important. I can't be appreciative enough with the personal assistance of having my mum look after the kids while I did all my running around. If I didn’t have my mum, it would have been a nightmare. And then I guess my husband financially supporting me while the business was growing was definitely hugely important.
Yaaya:
That 'Ndani' Selfridges project you spoke about, do you consider the group of you that came together were a support system for each other?
Hazel A:
I wouldn’t call it a support system. We didn’t have any connection with each other like that. I mean I know all of them, but there wasn’t really a connection. It was more of a professional relationship.
Sometimes I feel when it comes to African fashion, that there is too much competition. Because it so hard to climb the ladder, when someone has climbed the ladder, they sort of push the ladder down for no-one to follow. And I feel that there should be more coming together and helping each other. Even if it just means mentorship and helping new designers start up their business or even mentoring by collaborating with them. I just feel there is this notion that “this is mine, and I don’t want to help anyone else.” Because it’s so hard to climb the ladder, it feels like people think that there is just that one spot up there, and therefore only they can or should grab that one spot.
I see this more with black fashion designers trying to get their fashion lines out into stores in Europe or getting exposure from the press here. That’s when the competition really starts. And I feel it is because there seems to be only that one slot for an African designer. So there is that huge competition, and I feel maybe we should forget that and come together and create our own platform to open up fantastic stores within Africa and Europe, and not just rely on the opportunities that only seem to have one vacant slot.
Sometimes I feel when it comes to African fashion, that there is too much competition. Because it so hard to climb the ladder, when someone has climbed the ladder, they sort of push the ladder down for no-one to follow. And I feel that there should be more coming together and helping each other. Even if it just means mentorship and helping new designers start up their business or even mentoring by collaborating with them. I just feel there is this notion that “this is mine, and I don’t want to help anyone else.” Because it’s so hard to climb the ladder, it feels like people think that there is just that one spot up there, and therefore only they can or should grab that one spot.
I see this more with black fashion designers trying to get their fashion lines out into stores in Europe or getting exposure from the press here. That’s when the competition really starts. And I feel it is because there seems to be only that one slot for an African designer. So there is that huge competition, and I feel maybe we should forget that and come together and create our own platform to open up fantastic stores within Africa and Europe, and not just rely on the opportunities that only seem to have one vacant slot.
Black Women As Role Models
Yaaya:
Which black women are you most inspired by?
Hazel A:
One lady is Noella Coursaris. She’s Congolese. She has really inspired me because she used to be a model, and then she came up with this idea that she wanted to help young girls in Congo. She started building a school, not knowing how she was going to fund it, and now she has a school with ... I don’t know how many thousand children. It was all based on donations and charity. For me, that is so inspiring - to see someone like that have an idea and see it through. And now she has met Bill Clinton and Ben Affleck … many top people making donations. And then I guess an inspiration is Michelle Obama. Someone like that is hugely influential. I mean, to be the first lady, the wife of America’s first black president! To see how is she is gracefully handling that responsibility is hugely inspirational to me.
Yaaya:
Do you feel there is somebody of her status and influence, as a strong public role model for black women or that you can identify with, in Europe?
Hazel A:
(Long pause) I don’t think I know many black female role models like that. I’m sure there are, but … no I can’t think of anyone.
Yaaya:
Do you think it’s because the U.S. is a bit more progressive with its representation of strong black female figures in the media?
Hazel A:
You hear more of top senior black women in the U.S. more so than here in the U.K., I don’t know why.
Yaaya:
This is where the issue of the social invisibility of black women comes in. Through the interviews we’ve been doing, we’ve met lots of black women at the top of their game, but you -
Hazel A:
You don’t get to hear about them. Exactly! But why is it you don’t get to hear or know about them? Because I met a black woman who was a very very senior person at IBM, and just thought to myself “this is huge!” But I didn’t know about her, I’d never heard of her. Even mainstream talk show hosts … there are no black female talk show hosts, whereas in the U.S. there are a lot more. When I think of famous black women in Europe, I find it hard to think of many. In the U.S., I can think of so many. I don’t know what America has got that Europe doesn’t. I don’t know if it’s because of the well-documented history with slavery and racial relations. Sometimes Europe seems to appear multi-cultural, so it is not made an issue. But it is still an issue. When I think about the top black women in Europe, I really have to think very long and hard. And I shouldn’t have to, they should be more accessible. Even when I get asked which black female celebrity in the U.K. I would love to dress, I just can’t really think of anyone that comes immediately to mind.
Yaaya:
Do you feel it is a two-way street, and that maybe more of the black female community need to put themselves forward? Or do you believe they are putting themselves forward and they are allowing their work to be seen -
Hazel A:
But they are not getting the recognition? I think that is really more it, because I don’t see why they wouldn’t put themselves forward. I think it’s that they are not getting written about.
The Importance of Mentorship
Yaaya:
How important do you think it is to mentor others especially black girls and women?
Hazel A:
I think it is very important. It gives a woman a sense of importance that they can help someone else. But I think being a mentor is important full stop. Regardless of race or gender it is important. I guess it might be more relevant and interesting for a black woman to mentor another black girl or woman because then they would know that she [the mentor] would have gone through similar hurdles, and it would be interesting to know how she overcame those hurdles. So for someone who is trying to follow in her footsteps, they know how to avoid or overcome those hurdles, because in this country, it is harder for a black woman than it is for a white woman.
So it would be great to know such black women, to know more about them and how to even access them as mentors. Seriously, I mean .. like how do you access them? I wouldn’t even know where to go. I just know that when I meet someone and I think it would be good to their advice, I would do well to ask them.
So it would be great to know such black women, to know more about them and how to even access them as mentors. Seriously, I mean .. like how do you access them? I wouldn’t even know where to go. I just know that when I meet someone and I think it would be good to their advice, I would do well to ask them.
Yaaya:
What advice do you have for someone wanting to begin a career in the textiles and fashion industry?
Hazel A:
I always say you need to have enough financial backing to last you for at least three seasons. I say three in particular because the first one, I feel like you are experimenting. The second one, you’re still discovering who are you. I think maybe by the third collection, you’ve been able to create an solid identity for yourself and your brand. Buyers want to see a consistency, maybe not so much in Africa, but I talk about buyers here. They want to see that you will last, and that it’s not after the second collection you will be broke. I feel like after the third collection, you’ve had at least three seasons to show progression such that the collections are getting better and that they are consistent. And I mean a consistency in terms of the brand. If a buyer buys into you once, he or she should know more or less what to expect.
And then it’s all about having a story, you can’t just have nice garments. They need to tell a story because you need to have some unique selling point that differentiates you from others. Everyone has nice garments, so when buyers ask “why should I buy you?”, it’s because of the designer or the story being told. Branding is also important, because you can find nice garments [everywhere]. But people buy into a brand, so the branding is very important.
You need to have so much passion, because fashion is not just the fashion show. That’s like two-percent of it! There is marketing, there is accounting, there is admin, there is … it just goes on. It’s a business you are running, it’s not just “oh, I’m designing nice clothes, and that’s it.” No, it’s the whole brand. I didn’t know that when I started, so when you go into fashion you have to understand that it is a business. From the social media to the press releases … everything needs to come together.
Lastly, it’s hard work, so you need to have a great work-ethic. When you start out, you tend to do most of it yourself. I still do most of it myself, I guess because I am a control-freak (laughs). I just like to know that I can rely on myself. If I rely too much on other people, I often get disappointed. I have someone that sort of works with me and she is great. She understands the business inside out, but I don’t have her full-time. I think when you are starting out, I wouldn’t say invest in a PR company because people don’t really know you yet. It takes some time for them to build your reputation, so you’re just paying them for not much in return. That was my mistake, because immediately they shoved me into: “oh, she’s an African designer, let’s put her in that corner there”.
And then it’s all about having a story, you can’t just have nice garments. They need to tell a story because you need to have some unique selling point that differentiates you from others. Everyone has nice garments, so when buyers ask “why should I buy you?”, it’s because of the designer or the story being told. Branding is also important, because you can find nice garments [everywhere]. But people buy into a brand, so the branding is very important. You need to have so much passion, because fashion is not just the fashion show. That’s like two-percent of it! There is marketing, there is accounting, there is admin, there is … it just goes on. It’s a business you are running, it’s not just “oh, I’m designing nice clothes, and that’s it.” No, it’s the whole brand. I didn’t know that when I started, so when you go into fashion you have to understand that it is a business. From the social media to the press releases … everything needs to come together.
Lastly, it’s hard work, so you need to have a great work-ethic. When you start out, you tend to do most of it yourself. I still do most of it myself, I guess because I am a control-freak (laughs). I just like to know that I can rely on myself. If I rely too much on other people, I often get disappointed. I have someone that sort of works with me and she is great. She understands the business inside out, but I don’t have her full-time. I think when you are starting out, I wouldn’t say invest in a PR company because people don’t really know you yet. It takes some time for them to build your reputation, so you’re just paying them for not much in return. That was my mistake, because immediately they shoved me into: “oh, she’s an African designer, let’s put her in that corner there”.
Achievements And Future Ambitions
Yaaya:
Congratulations on releasing your AW13 (Autumn Winter 2013) collection. Nature, patterns and vibrant colours was the story of your Spring/Summer 2013 collection, and we see this story also being narrated in your latest collection.
Hazel A:
Yes, the Spring/Summer collection was butterflies and so I continued that theme in the Autumn/Winter [collection]. It's the story of the migration towards the desert. So it was inspired by the turquoises and the royal blues, earthy colours, the desert, and the journey to North of Africa. With my collections, I am always in a holiday mood. You’ll never see coats! It’s more like “it’s cold, so where can we jet off to, where can we go somewhere warm?” And then I guess you saw the scarves.
Yaaya:
Yes we did. In the Spring/Summer showing, you accessorised the garments by placing butterflies on the models' lips. That was really cool.
Hazel A:
Yes, that was my favourite collection, I felt I was really inspired then. The one after that, I wasn’t so personally inspired by. But for the collection coming out, I am giving it my all. With designing clothes, I think sometimes that where your frame of mind or emotions are at the moment in time is reflected in the product. You’re not always as enthusiastic or always as inspired. But I am really excited about the next one. It is in production at the moment, because you always have to be like six months ahead before the fashion show [for that season] starts.
Yaaya:
You talk about being excited for the next collection, what are you most proud about it so far? Without giving too much away!
Hazel A:
Well, there is a political issue to it which I am really passionate about. It involves Africa. So it’s about a current issue, and it’s also about a part of my journey so far.
Yaaya:
What would you say are some of your other greatest personal and professional achievements to date?
Hazel A:
One of them has got to be being stocked in Selfridges. And I guess just the growing recognition that I get. Because literally when I started, it was I that was reaching out to everyone, and now I feel like I’ve got to a point where people are coming to me. Which confirms to me that I must be doing something right. It’s very humbling. People now reach out to me to collaborate or ask if I could dress this person or that person, where before I was really just knocking on everyone’s door. And so that’s what I am really proud, to have done all these things and had not even come from a fashion background, but just being self-taught. And now I’m taken more seriously.
I’m definitely most proud of being a mum (laughs). Especially being a working mum, because it’s hard enough being a mum, but being a working mum is even harder. You know, balancing both to make sure you have enough time for your kids while still being successful with your business. Speaking for myself, I never want to ‘just’ be a mum, which itself is still hard work, but I wanted to own something that they [my children] would be proud of. I took both of them to South Africa and watching their little faces see me coming onto the catwalk was just … (smiles) … I didn’t care about the people in the audience but my kids. And I feel like “oh wow, they are proud of me, of their mum.” So them being proud of me is one of the things I am most proud of. Yes.
Yaaya:
What are some of your future projects you are most excited about that our readers should look out for?
Hazel A:
Nothing is concrete yet. But for me, I would love to do a collaboration. That’s my next goal, either with a bigger fashion house or with homeware. Like I’d love my prints to be on Ikea or Habitat’s plates or cups. Also I just started bridal wear. Then, everyone who sees the garments, they always comment on the prints. And so I was like “why don’t we just start selling prints?” And that’s what I started doing, and so I’d love to be known as the main provider of African Silk in Africa. So yes, those are some of the things I am working towards. I don’t have everything set yet, but it’s all very exciting.
And So The Conversation Ends … For Now :)
Yaaya:
To conclude, we’d like you to complete the following sentences.
What I most treasure about my heritage is …
What I most treasure about my heritage is …
Hazel A:
Hmm … the history? Because I’ve used some of that in the prints because Africa has a rich history.
Yaaya:
Femininity to me means ...
Hazel A:
Having a voice, and to be equal to man. The internalised recognition that you do have a voice, and that you can voice your opinion and not be silenced by a man. Because that’s the way I have been brought up, that women are equal to men. But I know in many cultures that is not the case. So it’s also about knowing that we are equal and having that confidence to speak up and use that voice. Yaaya:
I am still learning to …
Hazel A:
Perfect my craft. It’s still a learning curve, there still so many things I need to learn in fashion. And it’s not just because I didn’t have a fashion background. I think even if you had that, there would always be areas to develop. I think when you get to a point where you are perfect, I think you need to change careers. You need to challenge yourself. I learn all the time – I learn from my mistakes, learn to perfect the [design] process, listen to your customers and what they want.
My fashion design is very much interlinked with my experiences and where I go, and my experiences don’t stay static, they always change. So the way I would want to present those new stories will change over time. Because you always need to rejuvenate … reinvent yourself with time. You can’t keep doing the same thing as the environment around you changes and you need to adapt with it. Yaaya:
One of my ambitions is to ...
Hazel A:
Hmm … to be known as the African provider of silk.
Yaaya:
Yaaya to me represents …
Hazel A:
Fairer, complete, and more diverse interpretations of black women in today’s society.
Yaaya:
Thank you for your time Hazel, we look forward to hearing and seeing more great things from you!
This post concludes the final part of our interview with Hazel Aggrey-Orleans. Catch-up on the earlier parts of our conversation.
Part 1: Hazel Aggrey-Orleans, The Quintessential ‘Eki Girl’
Part 2: Being African. Being European. Being Afro-European
Part 3: The Black Woman Still Wears An Invisibility Cloak
Image Source | These images do not belong to Yaaya. Images courtesy of Hazel Aggrey-Orleans, the Eki Orleans website, the Eki Orleans Facebook Page, and Selfridges
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